Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124

04/06/2011 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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01:06:26 PM Start
01:07:20 PM Confirmation Hearing(s):
01:46:08 PM HB186
02:50:17 PM HJR20
03:40:33 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearings: TELECONFERENCED
Board of Fisheries
Board of Game
<Above Item to be Held Over from 4/4/11>
+= HB 186 WOOD BISON TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ HJR 20 ROADLESS RULE & CHUGACH AND TONGASS HYDRO TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 195 PESTICIDES AND BROADCAST CHEMICALS TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                       HB 186-WOOD BISON                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:46:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be HOUSE BILL  NO. 186, "An Act relating to  the authority of the                                                               
commissioner of fish  and game with regard to  the importation or                                                               
relocation of wood bison in the state."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:46:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK, speaking as prime  sponsor of HB 186, stated                                                               
has lived for  44 years in the  area that the bison  would be re-                                                               
introduced.   He advised  that he  is specifically  familiar with                                                               
the villages  of Holy Cross,  Anvik, Shageluk, and Grayling.   He                                                               
explained HB  186 does not  prohibit the reintroduction  of bison                                                               
but  restricts  re-locating  bison  until  more  information  and                                                               
understanding  of the  impact in  doing so  is considered.     He                                                               
affirmed his trust in the  current governor, but remarked that in                                                               
the past  some administrations have promoted  policies which have                                                               
been devastating to the country.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK  recalled opposition  to the  bill cautioning                                                               
that anyone should make the  decision except for the legislature.                                                               
He remarked that  a legislator will represent  and have extensive                                                               
knowledge of any  specific area of proposed  relocation of bison.                                                               
Thus, the legislator  is the one who would have  a familiarity of                                                               
the situation at hand.  He  reiterated that his bill, HB 186 does                                                               
not oppose relocating  bison, but the department must  only do so                                                               
with appropriate  knowledge.   He remarked on  the range  of wood                                                               
bison,  noting that  two wood  bison wandered  from Canada  about                                                               
1,000  miles to  the  border  between Alaska  and  Canada so  the                                                               
animals  have   an  extensive  range.     Further,  the  proposed                                                               
relocation of bison would occur  within 50 miles of Donlin Creek,                                                               
which provides  the source of  the only major  resource available                                                               
to  the Calista  Corporation.   The proposed  location also  lies                                                               
within  50 miles  of the  inactive Kako  gold mine.   He  further                                                               
advised members  that numerous pilot  projects exist  to consider                                                               
peat  as  a resource,  and  one  place  in particular  lies  near                                                               
McGrath.   He expressed further  concern over  re-introduction of                                                               
bison in  the area along  the Yukon River since  substantial peat                                                               
exists  in  the  area.    Since  fuel  prices  are  astronomical,                                                               
villages  have  been looking  for  alternative  fuel sources,  he                                                               
said.  He cautioned members  that changing the bison status could                                                               
"lock up" the  peat resources in his district.   He reported that                                                               
he has received  numerous e-mails and while  some resources might                                                               
not  be  located  in  his  legislative  district,  the  Roads  to                                                               
Resources  program could  be affected  since the  bison have  the                                                               
ability to roam so far.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:49:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  VERHAGEN, Staff,  Representative Alan  Dick, reviewed  some                                                               
documents  in  members'  packets.    He  referred  to  the  first                                                               
document  titled,  "Endangered  Species law  and  Policy,"  which                                                               
details  the U.S.  Fish and  Wildlife  Services consideration  of                                                               
lowering or "down  listing" the wood bison from  an endangered to                                                               
a threatened species under the  Endangered Species Act (ESA).  He                                                               
next referred  to a copy  of the Federal Register  dated February                                                               
8,  2011,  which substantiates  the  potential  to reclassify  or                                                               
downlist the  wood bison from  endangered to  threatened species.                                                               
He highlighted a  quote from the Wood Bison News  which noted one                                                             
rumor  was  that  the  wood  bison  would  be  removed  from  the                                                               
threatened species status.  Instead,  the ruling was reversed and                                                               
wood  bison was  added to  the  Endangered Species  Act list,  he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. VERHAGEN then referred to  a constituent blog dated 3/28/2011                                                               
that points out, in terms  of federal categories of threatened or                                                               
endangered species,  the similarity between wood  bison and polar                                                               
bears.   The  polar  bear has  been designated  as  being on  the                                                               
threatened species  list by the  U.S. Fish and  Wildlife Service,                                                               
which has  had the effect  of "locking  up" 120 million  acres in                                                               
Alaska.   He  expressed concern  that this  type of  action could                                                               
occur in Interior  Alaska if wood bison are  re-introduced and if                                                               
a federal  judge issued a  ruling under the "10(j)"  provision of                                                               
the Endangered Species Act (ESA).                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:51:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VERHAGEN referenced  a blog  titled, "FWS  Reclassifies Wood                                                               
Bison as Threatened  Not Endangered, Species."  He  said the blog                                                               
demonstrates that  this is an  emotional issue, noting  the title                                                               
misleads readers  from what actually  happened.  The  second page                                                               
of the  blog provides a  five-factor analysis that  shows threats                                                               
to wood bison are still  present.  The information also indicates                                                               
that  tougher  regulations  may   be  employed  against  existing                                                               
business  in  areas  near  threatened  species.    He  turned  to                                                               
information  on the  Endangered  Species Law  and Policy  website                                                               
which indicates  a Section 4(f)  recovery plan under the  ESA has                                                               
not  been issued  because a  wild population  does not  currently                                                               
exists in  the U.S.   He expressed  concern that once  wood bison                                                               
were re-introduced in  the U.S. the 4 (f) recovery  plan could be                                                               
developed  and issued.   He  surmised any  restrictions would  be                                                               
imposed at the time the 4 (f) recovery plan is issued.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:53:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VERHAGEN   referred  to  the   Delta  Bison   Working  Group                                                               
recommendations  following  its January  11,  2011  meeting.   He                                                               
commented that the  Delta bison are not  designated as threatened                                                               
or endangered by the ESA,  but the report demonstrates the amount                                                               
of  effort necessary  to try  to resolve  the conflicts  in Delta                                                               
Junction.   He suggested the  conflicts have been ongoing  for 30                                                               
years.   Still,  the  state has  not found  any  solution to  the                                                               
issues.  He referred to  the "fallout" of introducing Delta Bison                                                               
resulted in unintended consequences,  which he thought could have                                                               
been avoided if the legislature had considered the issues.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VERHAGEN pointed  to  a report  in  members' packets  titled                                                               
"Estimated  Bison  Damage to  Delta  Agricultural  Fields -  2010                                                               
Charles Knight."   This report details the  2010 estimated costs.                                                               
He  suggested similar  unintended consequences  could occur  from                                                               
the release of  wood bison.  He predicted the  potential years it                                                               
might take perhaps without resolution.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:54:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VERHAGEN  turned  to  a   document  titled  "Intentional  or                                                               
Unintended  Consequences?"    He  stated that  the  bill  sponsor                                                               
presented  this  information to  his  constituents  to give  them                                                               
additional commentary on  intentional or unintended consequences.                                                               
The  next document  titled "Wood  Bison" provides  information to                                                               
constituents specifically  on wood bison.   The last  articles in                                                               
members'  packets  are  copies  of  Wood  Bison  News  which  are                                                             
informative  articles  that  detail   the  efforts  made  to  re-                                                               
introduce wood bison into the wild  in Alaska.  He concluded that                                                               
the sponsor supports introduction of  wood bison, but only in the                                                               
event that wood  bison are removed from the ESA  and are not just                                                               
reclassified from an endangered to a threatened species.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:55:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ asked  whether other  areas are  also being                                                               
considered for the wood bison relocation.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK  answered  first encountered  the  plan  for                                                               
relocating bison in  the Minto Flats area.  He  related that when                                                               
he heard  the phrase  "Trojan Bison" used  since the  Minto Flats                                                               
residents warned  him of resource  development issues  that could                                                               
result from  the relocation of  bison.  He  was not aware  of any                                                               
third location under consideration.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:56:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ  requested an explanation of  the difference                                                               
between wood and plains bison.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK explained that these  wood bison are the only                                                               
wood  bison in  North America  except  for the  herds located  in                                                               
Canada.   The plains  bison are  not endangered  and a  number of                                                               
herds exist in the Lower 48.   He advised that these are the only                                                               
bison in all  of the U.S.   He reiterated his belief  it would be                                                               
unwise to introduce wood bison  in the communities of Holy Cross,                                                               
Anvik, Shageluk, and Grayling.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:57:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked  whether the wood bison  are native to                                                               
the U.S.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK  responded that historically, between  100 to                                                               
500 years ago wood bison existed  in the area.  He reiterated the                                                               
DNR is  limited to  relocating the  animals to  an area  in which                                                               
they previously existed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:57:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  asked whether  the wood and  plains bison                                                               
in the  Delta area could  interbreed given that both  are capable                                                               
of traveling thousands of miles.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK answered  he did not have  scientific data to                                                               
base his  answer, but offered  his belief that  mobility provides                                                               
yet another  reason why this needs  to be "brought to  light" and                                                               
should be scrutinized.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:58:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI   said  he   appreciated  Representative                                                               
Dick's sounding of the alarm  given the possibility of unintended                                                               
consequences.   He  offered his  belief  HB 186  would delay  the                                                               
relocation  for at  least  a year.   He  asked  what the  sponsor                                                               
envisioned  would occur  during that  time, such  as whether  any                                                               
hearings would be held.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK predicted that as  soon as the people of Holy                                                               
Cross,  Anvik, Shageluk,  and Grayling  heard both  sides of  the                                                               
issue, the  entire matter may  come to  a "screeching halt."   He                                                               
further stated that if his  constituents were made fully aware of                                                               
all of  the issues  and still  decided to  move forward  with re-                                                               
introduction of  wood bison  he would  support the  relocation of                                                               
wood bison.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:00:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  said it  appeared  that  the state  Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  and Game  (ADF&G) has  been working  on this                                                               
issue.  She inquired as to  whether the department has acquired a                                                               
"10(j)" exemption from the ESA.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK understood  that  the  "10(j)" exemption  is                                                               
being crafted in a way that  might speak specifically to the wood                                                               
bison.   He  still  questioned  what "piece  of  paper" could  be                                                               
signed in Washington D.C. that could be trusted in Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:01:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  inquired  as  to  the  timeline  for  this                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK answered that the anticipated date for re-                                                                  
introduction  of wood  bison has  been scheduled  for the  spring                                                               
2012.  This bill might delay that  action by a year, he said.  He                                                               
offered  the possibility  that HB  186  would not  delay the  re-                                                               
introduction of  wood bison.   He suggested that people  may wish                                                               
to re-introduce  bison due  to moose  or caribou  herd reductions                                                               
and just suffer the unintended consequences.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:02:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON asked  for clarification  with respect  to                                                               
regard the "10(j)."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK  responded  that because  the  proposed  re-                                                               
location of  the wood  bison is experimental  the bison  would be                                                               
exempt from the  ESA under the "10(j)" provision of  the act.  In                                                               
further  response  to  Representative   Herron,  he  agreed  that                                                               
experimental equates  to non-essential,  which is the  reason for                                                               
the proposed exemption.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:03:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON related  his understanding  that currently                                                               
the department could stock game in  other areas of the state.  He                                                               
asked whether  the department has  followed its  priorities based                                                               
upon  habitat requirements,  population  of  native game,  animal                                                               
presence  and  other factors  that  would  affect the  successful                                                               
establishment of this species.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. VERHAGEN  acknowledged those answers  are yet unknown  and is                                                               
one reason the sponsor introduced the bill.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:04:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON  asked  whether  he  has  asked  ADF&G  to                                                               
specifically   address  the   statutes   that   pertain  to   re-                                                               
introduction.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK  answered  he has  held  conversations  with                                                               
ADF&G, but has not written any letters the department.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:05:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON recalled  a similar  situation  arose with  musk                                                               
oxen.  He  asked for the availability of  any correspondence that                                                               
relates to introducing musk oxen.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK said he did not know.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON offered  his view  that reviewing  what happened                                                               
with  respect   to  musk  oxen   might  lead  the   committee  to                                                               
discussions  of  what  might  be   applicable  since  an  extinct                                                               
population was studied prior to being re-introduced.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:06:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE inquired  as to whether anything  would prevent an                                                               
entity from suing once the wood bison were in place.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DICK   recalled   prior  testimony   that   some                                                               
environmental groups  said they  did not  intend to  file against                                                               
the "10(j)" exemption  due to the absence  of potential resources                                                               
for resource development  in the area.   He acknowledged lawsuits                                                               
could  happen  but he  was  unsure  if  any  would.   He  further                                                               
recalled correspondence in opposition  to the bill that suggested                                                               
the bill  was based on paranoia.   He said, "Just  because you're                                                               
paranoid  doesn't  mean  they're  not   out  to  get  you."    He                                                               
acknowledged that even if the  federal government does not renege                                                               
on  the  "10(j)"  exemption,   the  subsistence  residents  could                                                               
potentially end up  being the litigants rather than  hunters.  He                                                               
concluded, "It's hard enough to live in that country."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:07:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON recalled  that the musk oxen  had been classified                                                               
as domestic animals  before their re-introduction in  Alaska.  He                                                               
inquired as to whether the  sponsor could investigate that matter                                                               
to perhaps find solutions to  the issues with re-introducing wood                                                               
bison.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DICK   acknowledged   that   was   a   brilliant                                                               
observation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:09:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD GRASSER, Lobbyist, Safari  Club International, pointed out                                                               
the distinction  that the  Safari Club  International (SCI)  is a                                                               
conservation group and  not a preservation group.   Both chapters                                                               
of the SCI  support the re-introduction of the wood  buffalo.  He                                                               
offered one tenet  of the SCI is to recognize  the North American                                                               
model  for  wildlife management.    The  SCI believes  that  this                                                               
project  fits  under  the  model,   he  said.    He  referred  to                                                               
[President]  Roosevelt's idea  that hunters  and fishermen  would                                                               
pay a  fee to support  the conservation  of species.   He offered                                                               
his belief  this approach has  been much more effective  than has                                                               
been the ESA's restrictions.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRASSER offered  his view  that this  is not  an "us  versus                                                               
them"  issue.     As  conservationists,  the   SCI  believes  the                                                               
introduction  of wood  bison would  be  an economic  boon to  the                                                               
villages  in  the  area  and   would  enhance  their  subsistence                                                               
economies.   The SCI believes  multiple activities can  occur and                                                               
should not negate one in favor of another.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:11:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER referred  to questions about the  ESA's "10(j)" rule.                                                               
He reported  that the  SCI's attorneys  in Washington,  D.C. have                                                               
been in  court for 10 years  with respect to the  wolf de-listing                                                               
process  and re-introduction  of wolves  in the  Lower 48  in the                                                               
Northern  Rocky  Mountains  and  along   the  Great  Lakes.    He                                                               
explained  the "10(j)"  rule, which  is a  process under  the ESA                                                               
that   allows  for   an  exemption   of  that   status  involving                                                               
introduction  of a  species.   The "10(j)"  process represents  a                                                               
rulemaking process  that includes non-government  entities (NGOs)                                                               
as well  as state agencies.   He  characterized the process  as a                                                               
very  involved  process.    He   offered  his  belief  that  once                                                               
established  under the  "10(j)"  rule the  wood  bison would  not                                                               
impact any  other activity.   He acknowledged questions  exist on                                                               
whether  the federal  government could  unilaterally rescind  the                                                               
"10(j)" rule.  He said, "It's  never happened and it's never been                                                               
overturned in  court as  far as  our researchers  can find."   He                                                               
reiterated  that  the   SCI  has  available  some   of  the  best                                                               
litigators in  the world  in its Washington  D.C. office  yet has                                                               
not discovered  any instance in  which the court ruling  has been                                                               
overturned.  He related that  if the federal government wanted to                                                               
rescind the  rule after  the wood  bison were  re-introduced, the                                                               
agency must use the same  rulemaking process to overturn the rule                                                               
as it  used to  establish the  rule.   He reiterated  the federal                                                               
government could  not unilaterally  make the decision  to rescind                                                               
the  "10(j)"  rule.    He  said he  thought  that  represented  a                                                               
significant point in this equation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRASSER recalled  a similar  instance in  which the  SCI was                                                               
approached  seven years  ago by  some  of the  principals in  the                                                               
movement to ban the Pebble Mine.   He provided his involvement as                                                               
serving on the  national Board of Directors of  the national SCI.                                                               
He also served as the  field representative of the National Rifle                                                               
Association (NRA) at  the time.  He  held extensive conversations                                                               
with these groups,  but neither one has opposed  the Pebble Mine.                                                               
He affirmed  the SCI's view  that the Pebble Mine  process should                                                               
go  forward and  the same  should hold  true for  the wood  bison                                                               
project.   The  SCI has  been involved  in the  wood bison  issue                                                               
since the 1980s.   He explained that the SCI  has worked with the                                                               
ADF&G and  has invested  a significant amount  of money  into the                                                               
project.  Thus,  the SCI has had  a stake in this  and has wanted                                                               
the project to  move forward.  He acknowledged  problems that the                                                               
ESA has  caused for  Alaska on  issues.   Therefore, the  SCI has                                                               
laid groundwork  to reform the ESA.   He offered his  belief that                                                               
some structural portions of the act could be amended.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:15:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER provided some  historical information on introduction                                                               
of the musk  oxen into Alaska, which happened  prior to enactment                                                               
of the ESA.   He reported that re-introduction of  wood bison has                                                               
been put off until the spring 2013 due to some state actions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER  concluded that the  SCI does  not believe HB  186 is                                                               
necessary  and is  simply reactionary.    The SCI  also does  not                                                               
support inclusion  of legislative  approval as  part of  the wood                                                               
bison re-introduction since it would  make it much harder to move                                                               
forward.   He offered his belief  that some people would  use the                                                               
bill  to block  re-introduction of  the wood  bison, whether  the                                                               
rationale was  based on fact  or not.   The SCI opposes  the bill                                                               
since the SCI does not support  the wood bison project being tied                                                               
to the Delta bison project, he  said.  He offered his belief that                                                               
the SCI  has invested over  $300,000 thus  far on the  wood bison                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:17:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE, with respect to  his research on "10(j)" waivers,                                                               
asked whether an injunction has  ever been granted to temporarily                                                               
stop a project while the lawsuit was evaluated.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER was unsure but offered  to research this and get back                                                               
to the committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:17:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON inquired  as to whether he was  a member of                                                               
the Alaska Bar Association.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER answered no.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:18:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON,  based on  Mr. Grasser's  expertise, asked                                                               
whether the wood bison could survive wolves in the wild.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER  said he  was unsure  they would  be able  to survive                                                               
wolves.   He  reported that  in  his experience  wolves are  very                                                               
efficient predators and  can take down any animal they  want.  He                                                               
deferred to the ADF&G to more definitively answer the question.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:18:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ  asked  him  to elaborate  on  the  factors                                                               
slowing down the "10(j)" exemption.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER  related his understanding of  the original agreement                                                               
which included that  once the wood bison  population was restored                                                               
general hunting  would be allowed.   The SCI has stated  it would                                                               
not  support a  "10(j)"  rule  that did  not  contain a  specific                                                               
provision to allow hunting.  He  said that the current version of                                                               
the "10(j)"  rule does not address  hunting so the SCI  and ADF&G                                                               
do not support the proposed changes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:19:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked if the  "10(j)" exemption were granted                                                               
it is possible that hunting would not be allowed.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRASSER answered  that if  the "10(j)"  rule passed  with an                                                               
allowable  hunting provision,  then hunting  definitely would  be                                                               
allowed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MUNOZ recalled  his  earlier  testimony that  the                                                               
federal government has been considering not allowing hunting.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER responded  that the USFWS did not add  in the hunting                                                               
provision.  He clarified that  the federal government cannot just                                                               
"willy-nilly" rescind  the "10(j)" rule,  but must adhere  to the                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:20:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON,  with respect to general  hunting, asked whether                                                               
the  "10(j)" rule  would  need to  include  specific language  to                                                               
allow general hunting and not just subsistence hunting.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER  agreed.   He reiterated  that currently  the "10(j)"                                                               
rule does  not include specific  language to allow  hunting which                                                               
is why the SCI opposes the current rule-making process.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:21:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  SATRE,  Executive  Director, Council  of  Alaska  Producers                                                               
(CAP), on  behalf of the CAP,  explained the CAP is  a non-profit                                                               
trade association  representing the  producing large  metal mines                                                               
and major  resource development in  Alaska.  He spoke  in support                                                               
of HB  186, which  would require the  legislature to  approve the                                                               
importation or relocation  of wood bison in the  State of Alaska.                                                               
He pointed  out several  things the bill  does not  do, including                                                               
that it does  not prevent the introduction of wood  bison in what                                                               
appears  to  be  its  natural  habitat.    This  bill  would  not                                                               
interfere  with  the   management  of  the  wood   bison  into  a                                                               
sustainable herd that  may provide meat or  hunting revenues into                                                               
rural  Alaska.   He acknowledged  that HB  186 would  require the                                                               
legislature to  approve of the  actions of the  commissioner with                                                               
respect to  the importation  or relocation of  wood bison  in the                                                               
state.  The CAP does not have  any project in the vicinity of the                                                               
proposed wood  bison project,  but would like  to be  certain the                                                               
full ramifications of such a  re-introduction will be considered.                                                               
He  understood a  detailed process  has  ensued.   He hoped  that                                                               
passing this  bill would only  be limited  to adding time  to the                                                               
approval  process  and  would  allow   the  legislature  time  to                                                               
consider  any potential  negative effects  it may  have on  rural                                                               
Alaska  with respect  to  application  of the  federal  ESA.   He                                                               
pointed to  similar issues  with respect  to polar  bears, Beluga                                                               
whales, and Steller sea lions.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:23:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SATRE answered that the  currently proposal may be covered by                                                               
exemption  to   the  ESA  as  mentioned   in  earlier  testimony.                                                               
However, that may not always be  the case as the herd gets bigger                                                               
and broadens its range.  A  petition exists to remove the "10(j)"                                                               
exemption  and  cover the  herd  as  a threatened  or  endangered                                                               
species in the future.   He acknowledged the possibility possible                                                               
that  type of  listing could  limit developmental  activity.   He                                                               
expressed the  CAP's concern  about any  action that  would limit                                                               
access activities in rural Alaska  for development.  He supported                                                               
passage  of HB  186  to  allow legislature  time  to ensure  that                                                               
"10(j)"  exemption is  in place  to protect  Alaskans ability  to                                                               
live and  recreate in  rural Alaska and  to consider  any impacts                                                               
the  ESA may  have, with  respect to  the wood  bison.   He said,                                                               
"Rural Alaskans  and their way of  life is a truly  endangered or                                                               
threatened  species and  we want  to  make sure  we aren't  doing                                                               
anything  to affect  them," he  said.   In  response to  Co-Chair                                                               
Seaton, he offered to compile and submit written testimony.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:26:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRYCE  WRIGLEY stated  while he  is unconcerned  with wood  bison                                                               
being  re-introduced,   but  expressed   concern  that   the  re-                                                               
introduction of  wood bison  could limit  other development.   He                                                               
related he has  held numerous conversations with ADF&G.   He also                                                               
expressed  concern with  regard  to the  133,000  acres in  Minto                                                               
Flats area since  it lies within traveling distance  for the wood                                                               
buffalo in the  Nenana-Tochaket area.  He  reiterated his concern                                                               
that re-introduction  of wood bison could  potentially jeopardize                                                               
development  of the  Minto Flats  area.   He recalled,  under the                                                               
"10(j)"  rule,  that  in  the event  the  wood  bison  population                                                               
diminished  it would  not affect  game management.   However,  he                                                               
said he was not convinced the  ADF&G would exert effort to remove                                                               
any obstacles  that could  impact the  herd.   He feared  that if                                                               
ADF&G did  not take  action the federal  government would  do so.                                                               
He recalled  when wolves  were re-introduced in  the Lower  48 in                                                               
the Yellowstone Park  area.  He indicated Montana  and Idaho took                                                               
game  management actions  with  respect to  wolves  but had  been                                                               
overruled by  the federal  government.   He felt  similar actions                                                               
could ensue with respect to the  wood bison even with the "10(j)"                                                               
rule.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:29:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WRIGLEY reported  that almost  all legal  challenges to  the                                                               
"10(j)" rules tended to be taken  up on more obscure species.  He                                                               
thought  anything  as  iconic  and  American  as  a  bison  would                                                               
generate emotional support  and efforts would be  taken to ensure                                                               
the wood  bison's' survival.   He suggested  in his  research the                                                               
only challenges  that approximate the wood  bison were challenges                                                               
to the whooping crane and the California condor.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WRIGLEY referred  to the  belief that  the federal  agencies                                                               
would not  exert any  pressure since the  federal rule  under the                                                               
ESA  only  requires  consultation  on  endangered  species.    He                                                               
offered his  belief that  view represents  a naïve  assumption by                                                               
ADF&G.   He  suggested a  number of  ways exist  for the  federal                                                               
government  to  exert  pressure   on  state  agencies,  including                                                               
withholding matching funds or by "bullying."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:31:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  WRIGLEY summarized  three challenges  to re-introduction  of                                                               
the wood  bison:  the  legal challenges  to the "10(j)"  rule and                                                               
whether the  rule could  be upheld;  the federal  interference in                                                               
the  management of  the wood  bison herd,  which could  "lock up"                                                               
resources;  and the  amount of  land  necessary for  agriculture,                                                               
which could limit other uses.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:32:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON  QUARBERG stated  he has  resided  in Delta  Junction for  35                                                               
years.   He  has  served on  the Delta  Working  Group since  its                                                               
inception.   He related that  the DWG  is a management  group for                                                               
the Delta bison.   Additionally, he has served on  the local Fish                                                               
and Game  Advisory Committee but  is representing  himself today.                                                               
He  took  exception  with Representative  Dick's  statement  that                                                               
ADF&G  has  done   nothing  to  resolve  the   Delta  bison  herd                                                               
conflicts.    He  related  that ADF&G  has  done  the  following:                                                               
cleared  and developed  several  thousand acres  of bison  range,                                                               
planted  grasses  and  small  grains as  forage  for  the  bison,                                                               
developed a supply of fresh  water, placed salt blocks to attract                                                               
bison to  the range,  conducted forage  trials to  improve forage                                                               
quality and  to identify new  and better forages.   Additionally,                                                               
the ADF&G  has worked  with the University  of Alaska  to develop                                                               
native grasses on the range, worked  with the U.S. Army to create                                                               
additional  forage on  military  land.   Further,  the ADF&G  has                                                               
developed  hunting regulations  to improve  hunter success  of in                                                               
harvesting bison.   He commented that  hunters supported doubling                                                               
their fees  to provide  additional funding  to enhance  the bison                                                               
range.    He  remarked  that  regulations  changes  have  changed                                                               
hunting seasons to better manage  the bison hunts, established an                                                               
early hunt on  private lands to better manage  the bison movement                                                               
off  private lands,  and  have allowed  the  use of  ground-based                                                               
communication  such  as  cell  phones  and  satellite  phones  to                                                               
enhance the harvest.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:34:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. QUARBERG  related that ADF&G has  unsuccessfully attempted to                                                               
work with  land owners to allow  bison hunting on all  farm land.                                                               
Thus,  some  farms  essentially  have  essentially  become  bison                                                               
sanctuaries   and   that   makes   game   management   difficult.                                                               
Additionally,  the  ADF&G has  been  unsuccessful  in creating  a                                                               
share-cropping  program to  increase forage  production on  bison                                                               
range.  He recalled criticism on  the location of the Delta bison                                                               
range in  close proximity to farms.   He suggested that  when the                                                               
land was  designated as  the bison range  it was  land considered                                                               
unsuitable for  farming by the Agriculture  Action Council during                                                               
Governor  Hammond's  administration.   He  further  recalled  the                                                               
legislature passed the proposal which became the bison range.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:35:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. QUARBERG spoke  to his written comments on HB  186, which had                                                               
been  forwarded  to the  committee.    Many people  believe  that                                                               
wildlife  should   be  allowed   to  be  re-introduced   and  re-                                                               
introducing  wood bison  would create  a wildlife  asset for  the                                                               
State  of Alaska,  he said.   He  related his  understanding that                                                               
commissioners must  undergo confirmation  by the  legislature and                                                               
are charged  with managing wildlife  for Alaskans.   He supported                                                               
the sponsor's concern  on the court action on  the "10(j)" ruling                                                               
as a valid  concern.  He remarked that everything  Alaska does is                                                               
ultimately subject  to a judge's  ruling.  He expressed  his view                                                               
that HB 186 is unnecessary.   He encouraged members to oppose the                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:37:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEVE  BORELL,  Executive  Director,  Alaska  Miners  Association                                                               
(AMA), on  behalf of the  AMA, referred  to a letter  in members'                                                               
packets, which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     My name  is Steve  Borell, I  am Executive  Director of                                                                    
     the Alaska  Miners Association and  I am  testifying on                                                                    
     behalf of the Association.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     I  believe you  have our  letter  to Rep  Dick in  your                                                                    
     packets so  I will not  read that  but will make  a few                                                                    
     additional comments.   We  applaud the  ongoing efforts                                                                    
     of ADF&G  to find a way  to make this work  while still                                                                    
     protecting the State from  the untended consequences of                                                                    
     a listing under the Endangered Species Act.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     If the Wood Bison can  be excluded from being listed as                                                                    
     "Endangered" or  "Threatened" by use of  ESA Sec. 10(j)                                                                    
     as "non-essential  experimental population" would  be a                                                                    
     good  step but  we feel  that the  requirement for  the                                                                    
     Alaska State Legislature to  approve this is important,                                                                    
     at a minimum.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     We are aware  that some officials within the  US Fish &                                                                    
     Wildlife Service have stated  that the Wood Bison would                                                                    
     not be listed as  "endangered", but as "threatened" and                                                                    
     that they can  provide a promise under Sec.  10(j).  We                                                                    
     appreciate  that if  Sec. 10(j)  was changed  to exempt                                                                    
     the Wood  Bison, a second rulemaking  would be required                                                                    
     to  later   change  Sec.   10(j)  and   eliminate  that                                                                    
     exemption.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     However,  we would  point  out that  this  is the  same                                                                    
     agency  that  listed  the Beluga  Whale  based  on  bad                                                                    
     science and the Polar  Bear based on political science.                                                                    
     These  examples  have  shown that  the  USF&WS  can  no                                                                    
     longer  be considered  a credible  independent science-                                                                    
     based  voice.    Also,  the USF&WS  cannot  ensure  the                                                                    
     outcome of a  suit that will inevitably  come from some                                                                    
     environmental NGO.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Regarding the  bill, we recommend that  the Legislature                                                                    
     consider   amending  the   bill  to   state  that   re-                                                                    
     introduction  of Wood  Bison not  be allowed  until the                                                                    
     U.S. Congress passes legislation  that makes it certain                                                                    
     that the  Wood Bison  cannot be listed  as "endangered"                                                                    
     or "threatened"  under the Endangered Species  Act, and                                                                    
     that  such re-introduction  must  then subsequently  be                                                                    
     authorized by  passage of  an act  by the  Alaska State                                                                    
     Legislature.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     It would be wonderful if Wood Bison could be released                                                                      
     but danger of ESA listing is just too great.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BORELL  asked  to  make  a  few  additional  comments.    He                                                               
applauded the ongoing efforts taken by  ADF&G to try to make this                                                               
work  given  the  possible unintended  consequences  of  the  ESA                                                               
listing.    The AMA  views  excluding  the  wood bison  from  the                                                               
endangered  or  threatened by  using  the  ESA's exemption  under                                                               
"10(j)"  as non-essential  experimental population  as a  step in                                                               
the right direction.   However, the AMA  believes the legislature                                                               
should also be a part of  the approval process.  He recalled some                                                               
officials  within  the  U.S.  Fish   and  Wildlife  Service  have                                                               
indicated that  the wood  bison would be  listed as  a threatened                                                               
species.   Additionally, the USFWS  indicated that  promise could                                                               
be issued  under the ESA's  "10(j)" rule.   However, the  AMA has                                                               
seen recent rule-making processes in  which the agency has simply                                                               
decided it will  do something and then takes action.   He pointed                                                               
out that  the USFWS is  the same  agency which listed  the Beluga                                                               
whale and the polar bear  using incorrect science and politics to                                                               
do  so.    Thus, the  AMA  does  not  believe  the USFWS  can  be                                                               
considered an independent science-based voice, he said.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:39:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BORELL  suggested that  HB 186 should  be amended  to include                                                               
approval from the  U.S. Congress prior to  re-introduction of the                                                               
wood  bison to  ensure  the wood  bison could  not  be listed  as                                                               
endangered or  threatened under the  ESA.  He offered  his belief                                                               
that  the danger  of an  ESA listing  is too  great to  allow re-                                                               
introduction of  the wood  bison until  all the  necessary pieces                                                               
are in place.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:40:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EUGENE PAUL, Holy Cross Tribal  Council (HCTC), stated that he is                                                               
a member  of the HCTC  and has been a  tribal chief for  over ten                                                               
years.   He has participated  in numerous meeting with  ADF&G and                                                               
locally in  Grayling and Holy Cross.   He recalled the  ADF&G has                                                               
plans to  build a corral in  Shageluk to hold the  wood bison for                                                               
at least  six months to acclimate  the bison to the  habitat.  He                                                               
spoke in  opposition to  HB 186  because of  fear that  the delay                                                               
could devastate  the communities.   He  understood that  it could                                                               
take years  for the herd  to build up.   He did not  believe than                                                               
any  roaming  by   the  wood  bison  would  impact   any  of  the                                                               
subsistence  species that  the villages  harvest, such  as moose.                                                               
Additionally,  the ADF&G  has advised  the  communities that  the                                                               
wood bison would not be competing  with other game resources.  He                                                               
understood that  the regional corporation, Doyon,  Limited, fully                                                               
supports the re-introduction  of the wood bison.   He pointed out                                                               
the  regional  corporation has  already  studied  the matter  and                                                               
supports  it.   He  related  that  ADF&G  has actively  kept  the                                                               
villages  informed.   He reported  that the  four villages  fully                                                               
support the  re-introduction of the  wood bison.  In  response to                                                               
Representative Dick, he answered that he has not seen the video.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:43:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK urged  Mr.  Paul to  watch  the video  which                                                               
would illustrate  what he  is attempting to  do.   He highlighted                                                               
his concern  that residents  have only heard  one viewpoint.   He                                                               
cautioned that viewpoint was made  by people who will benefit the                                                               
most  from the  wood bison's  re-introduction.   He simply  would                                                               
like the  people to be  aware of all implications,  including the                                                               
possibility that the ESA could be  invoked.  He said, "My concern                                                               
is the  bison are  going to  be free roaming  and the  people are                                                               
going to get  penned up."  He urged Mr.  Paul and other residents                                                               
to view the video.  He  reiterated his earlier commitment that if                                                               
people still want  the bison after hearing the other  side of the                                                               
argument, he will support their decision.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:46:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN  MENDIVE  stated that  he  has  been affiliated  with  the                                                               
Alaska  Wildlife Conservation  Center, but  is speaking  today on                                                               
his own behalf.  He explained  that the U.S. has been involved in                                                               
bison restoration for  over 100 years.  He related  that the wood                                                               
bison was  discovered in Canada  approximately 60 years ago.   He                                                               
offered his belief  that science and sound  biological review has                                                               
helped to  ensure a  sustainable wood bison  resource.   Over the                                                               
course of  time several areas  demonstrate strong success  in re-                                                               
introduction of  wood bison.  He  noted how fortunate it  is that                                                               
Alaska  has  habitat  distinctly  needed  for  wood  bison.    He                                                               
applauded  the  extent  that  ADF&G has  undergone  to  ensure  a                                                               
disease-free  herd could  be  imported into  the  state from  Elk                                                               
Island, Canada,  in particular, into  Alaska's habitat.   He also                                                               
noted  the tremendous  challenges  a  restoration process  takes,                                                               
especially given  the number  of concerns.   He offered  his view                                                               
that this  process has been  well orchestrated and does  not need                                                               
further oversight.   He  said that  he appreciates  the sponsor's                                                               
concern,  but  the  oversight  is   already  in  place  with  the                                                               
commissioner's supervision,  as well  as seasoned staff  who have                                                               
been on  this project  for over 20  years.  He  also said  he was                                                               
surprised  such strong  opposition would  arise amongst  Alaskans                                                               
when the resource  is poised to serve all  of Alaska's residents,                                                               
not just certain areas.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:49:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENDIVE reported  that Canada  currently  has six  different                                                               
herds  exceeding  well  over  6,000  animals in  the  wild.    He                                                               
acknowledged   that   some   pocketed  areas   have   experienced                                                               
challenges, but  the herd on  the western  edge of Canada  has an                                                               
over-the-counter purchase of hunting permits  for bison so it has                                                               
worked  well.   He concluded  this demonstrates  the biodiversity                                                               
and  ability  to  expand  and  remain  predator  resistant.    He                                                               
suggested that so long as the  herds remain under 100 animals the                                                               
species would be considered sustainable  and would not be subject                                                               
to bear and  wolf predation.   He related  the ADF&G has extended                                                               
itself to  rural Alaskans  in an  open process  that demonstrates                                                               
both sides and defines the  advantages of re-introduction of wood                                                               
bison.   He remarked on the  need to move forward  without adding                                                               
another layer of oversight that could delay the process.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:50:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[HB 186 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Fisheries - Brown.docx HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
Fisheries - Jeffrey.doc HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
Fisheries - Jensen.doc HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
Game - Yurko.docx HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186 Testimony Jack Reakoff.PDF HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB 186 Wood Bison BackUp.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HB-186 - Wood Bison Comment Ltr 4-4-2011074.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - hearing request RES.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - CS ENE.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR020-1-2-032311-LEG-N.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - backup map.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - Support USFS Tongass Energy Projects 2011.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - Support SE Conf.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - Support Petersburg.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 20 - backup JNU Chamber.pdf HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186 HRES 4.6.11 Additional Backup.PDF HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 186
HJR 20 HRES 4.6.11 Additional Testimony.PDF HRES 4/6/2011 1:00:00 PM